In today’s episode, I speak with the founder of Needles Eye Media, Dorothy Hollabaugh. She shares her journey to entrepreneurship and everything she has learned along the way. Dorothy took a leap of faith and hired a mentor that helped her get clients, strategize and expedite her success in a way she couldn’t have done alone. When you’re starting a new business, it’s not just helpful to have an experienced mentor by your side but it can be the difference between success and failure. Today, Dorothy offers her own mentorship by sharing her methods for getting clients, saying no to clients and how loyalty can build an unstoppable team.
[6:30] Surrendering to the unexpected circumstances that unfold
[8:00] Visualizing the worst case scenario when taking on a unanticipated risk
[9:40] The Facebook ad workshop that changed everything
[10:30] How to boost your potential by hiring a coach
[12:45] Using Upwork effectively to find high valued clients
[17:00] When bold moves, loyalty and trust may be more valuable than a competitive salary
[21:00] The right business partner or employee could double your business
[23:00] Recognizing red flags with potential clients
[27:30] There is always an alternative way to make the money
[28:50] Figure out how to hire the best talents that you can!
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The Legalpreneur Podcast is advertising/marketing material. It is not legal advice. Please consult with your attorney on these topics. Copyright Legalpreneur Inc 2022
Andrea Sager 00:03
Welcome to the Legalprenuer podcast. I’m your host Andrea Sager founder and CEO of Legalprenuer Inc. As a serial entrepreneur and someone that works exclusively with small business owners legally protecting their business. I’m dedicated to covering common legal issues faced by business owners, providing you with the business knowledge you need to catapult your business’s growth and showing you just how some of the world’s most elite entrepreneurs have handled these legal and business issues themselves. In true attorney fashion. The information in this episode is not legal advice. This is for informational purposes only and you should always consult with your attorney before implementing any of the information in the show. Hello there and welcome back. I am so excited for you guys to meet my very good friend Dorothy and actual roommate for the past year at our mastermind meetup. Dorothy hollobone is the founder of needles i media boutique digital advertising agency for data driven businesses looking to scale. Dorothy and her team have profitably spent more than $100 million on paid traffic across a variety of channels. With an innate talent for data wrangling and holistic understanding of digital marketing. Dorothy leverages a full stack data driven approach to help her clients grow. Dorothy is also the co founder and CEO of the gig, a digital media company that helps freelancers acquire and profit from high income online skills and seven minutes a day or less through their flagship email newsletter. Dorothy, thank you so much for joining me today.
Dorothy Hollabaugh 01:38
Thank you for having me, Andrea, this is a ton of fun.
Andrea Sager 01:41
I am so excited. So please, I know your story. I love your story. So can you please give the rundown to the audience how you got to where you are today?
Dorothy Hollabaugh 01:51
Absolutely. Man, there’s a lot of twists and turns. So I’ll give you kind of the high level high level overview here. So being a business owner, you know, working in marketing, how I do now was really not the plan. I intended on being an accountant, all through school college. You know, my whole focus was on getting a job with one of the big four accounting firms say that about me? I’m not sure if I did, actually, that’s crazy. So yeah, so I did my internship at PricewaterhouseCoopers, and their Chicago office. And that was really the, you know, I was I was doing it, I was accomplishing the goal. And I, you know, took a full time job offer with them going into my senior year. And I really thought that that was what I wanted. And it was over the course of my last year of school where I really kind of stumbled into this whole world of personal development. And it got me asking questions that I have, frankly, never asked myself before around really why I was going into this field? And the answer was, you know, really, because I had this idea in my mind of what, you know, quote, unquote, success looked like. And, you know, it had nothing to do with what was actually going to make me happy. Those two things were completely disassociated, in my mind, like happiness wasn’t even really part of the equation. And you know, I realized him like, I’m not excited about this job. I’m excited about the status, about the salary, about being able to like, tick that box and have that on my LinkedIn. And you know, say that I did it. But I wasn’t excited about what I was going to be spending, you know, eight hours a day, 14 hours a day, during busy season, you know what I was going to be doing there. And so I ended up quitting that job or giving up that job offer two weeks after I graduated, called up my recruiter and said, I’m so sorry to do this, but I’m not coming and move to Chicago anyway, really, with a goal to just figure it out and ended up landing at a startup here in Chicago, got a job as the fourth team member at a brand new meal delivery subscription company. I was there for three and a half years, and then I left. And that was when I started my agency.
Andrea Sager 04:08
I love that. And I didn’t realize how many similarities we had because I too, got the big dreamy job at the big law firm. And it was my last year of law school when I was like, I don’t know if I want to do this. But my now ex husband, we have decided he was going to stay home and I was literally the only one making money. And so I had to I couldn’t just say no, I’m not going to take the job. And oh my gosh. I’m curious. Did you recruit her? Like, did you get any was or like, not that they could punish you?
Dorothy Hollabaugh 04:47
I mean, she thought she was crazy. Oh my gosh, she’s I mean she was very nice about it. i My memory of the conversation was really just a lot of her saying, Are you sure? You know? Are you are you really Leisha about this, you know, I mean, I think she was just in total disbelief. You know, my parents obviously, were not thrilled, you know, I kind of the backstory, how I stumbled into personal development, I had stumbled into a network marketing company. So that was kind of my idea of, you know, what I was going to do to make money. And, you know, it was one of those situations where my degree of you know, naivety really kind of worked in my favor. Because, you know, I think if I’d known how, you know, if I’d known that the network marketing thing wasn’t going to work out, you know, I probably wouldn’t have have had the courage to give up that job. But when that didn’t work out, you know, I was really backed into a corner of like, Okay, I gotta figure out how I’m going to pay my rent, and, you know, live in this very expensive city. And, you know, it was one of those really beautiful stories of just how the, the universe just showed me the path. And, you know, one thing kind of led to another and I met, actually, the wife of the co founder of this business that I ended up going to work for, and it couldn’t have been unfolded more perfectly. For me, the learning experience that I had in those three and a half years at this startup, you know, watching this company go from zero to 10 million a year in revenue totally been strapped, you’re totally just, we were so scrappy, and just, you know, working our butts off and just making it happen, however, we could, I mean, that learning experience was invaluable. And it was really the perfect, you know, thing to set the stage for my journey as a business owner.
Andrea Sager 06:34
As a quick reminder, the Legalprenuer book is coming out at the end of this month, I am so excited. It’s been a labor of love and Legalprenuer, the business owners guide to legally protecting your business will finally be in your hands. If you have not already pre ordered your copy, get to it. Now, the actual price of the hardcover book will be more than the pre sale price. And if you are getting in on the pre sale price, you actually get over $2,000 in bonuses. So run, don’t walk, go get the Legalprenuer book right now, while it’s still on preorder. Okay, one thing I want to touch on, you don’t have to give the whole rundown of how you ended up in your business today. But you quickly told me I think when we were in Phoenix last time, how you went to a training like your old boss had get Can you tell that story? Because so I think it just lends itself perfectly to surrendering and just like doing whatever life throws at you. And I’m reading the surrender experiment. Have you read that? No, I haven’t. Okay, it’s by Michael singer. He also wrote the Untethered Soul. It’s what I’m currently listening to. on Audible. And I’m just seeing how beautiful like life unfolds when you surrender. And I see like, that’s literally what’s happened with you. So can you tell that so the listeners can hear just like how you surrender to that as well, and which it may not have felt like surrender at the time, but I love the story.
Dorothy Hollabaugh 08:01
Oh, girl, it felt like a shit show at the time. So. So I decided to leave this startup because my boss, the co founder, who I just adored working for, he was such a, and still is such an incredible mentor to me, he left. And so you know, I knew it was time for me to leave too. And really, I’ve gotten very spoiled in having that first job out of college be something where I had a ton of flexibility, I had autonomy, you know, I could work remote when I wanted to, you know, this is way before COVID. So that was not something that was easily found. And I really didn’t want to go backwards in that sense. I didn’t want to go somewhere that was going to force me to be in an office in Chicago five days a week and, and so I kind of got this idea in my head. Well, what if I tried to do something on my own? And the way that I approached that decision was really kind of thinking through Alright, what’s the worst case scenario? Because I think often when we’re faced with a decision that feels very risky, we really just have this very vague idea in our head of what that risk actually looks like. And we build it up to be something very scary without actually playing out. What is the actual worst case scenario if this doesn’t go well, and I was sitting in a very fortunate position where I was confident that I could find a job quickly if shit really hit the fan. You know, even if it wasn’t something I wanted long term like I could figure out a way to pay my rent you know, get a job within six weeks or something like that if I needed to. So in my mind, trying something on my own really just meant that okay, either it works out, or it doesn’t work out. I can’t figure out a way to make any money and then I need to go find a job which was exactly where I was anyway. So So I think often we realized man, like for me, the worst case scenario was actually no different from the position I was already in. Yeah, so I decided to go for it. Really just kind of fumbled for several months running my apartment on Airbnb to pay my rent while I tried to figure out something I could do to make money. And I was really not getting anywhere fast. And so about four months in, I was really kind of reaching the end of my rope. And I mean, this was a very emotional time. I mean, I was crying, like, we just started out, I, what do I do here? Nothing I’m trying is working. And then one day, my old boss, he called me up and said that he had a ticket to this Facebook ads workshop. And he couldn’t go. And did I want it. So I go to this three day Facebook ads intensive on Madison, Wisconsin. And I had, you know, I’ve been in marketing when I worked for the startup. But you know, we had an agency that was running our ads, I was not, I had no direct experience with Facebook ads, right? So I go to this workshop, and it was, you know, three days, eight hours a day, very intense. And I just had this feeling like, wow, like, this really seems like something I could be good at, you know, it really was just a perfect combination of my analytical brain, my creative brain. And so at the end of day two, the person hosting the workshop, he basically pitched his year long coaching program. And it was $30,000. I was living off my credit cards going into debt, I had no money. And I went back to my Airbnb that night. And he’d given out his cell phone number and said, Hey, if anyone has questions about the program, you know, give me a call. So I called him up. And I was basically trying to dance around this question of, you know, hey, like, what do you think the chances are that I can really find clients and make money and like, be successful doing this, and he saw right through me, and he goes straight up, if you don’t have the money for the program, I do not recommend that you join, like, okay, got it. I hang up that call, immediately call my old boss, Ryan, and go, Ryan, I’m doing it. And it was one of those things where I just, I just felt it in my gut, you know, and I’m definitely one of those people where, if I backed myself into a corner, I will fight, you know, I will figure it out. And I just had this feeling of, I mean, really, it wasn’t even necessarily a feeling of, you know, I was so sure I could do it. It was more, I felt like I was running out of options. And it was like, if it’s not this one, is it gonna be Yeah. And I was just so determined to make something happen. So I wouldn’t have to just go, go get a job and kind of give up on on this decision that I made. So I go back the next day, I put the first $6,000 payment on my credit card, and I just decide like, I’m going to give this everything I have. And within the I think it was three months, I hit my first $10,000 month, you know, I brought on clients who were willing to take a chance on me and bet on me. And because I had this coach, you know, we were literally screensharing every week looking at my clients accounts. And you know, he literally taught me from the ground up how to get results from people and do this work at an exceptionally high level. And he really held my hand that whole first year, you know, teaching me how to do it. Right. And that was the start of my agency.
Andrea Sager 13:13
That is incredible. Like, I have goosebumps, I love. And okay, so I’m very curious, where did you find those first clients? And I’m asking these questions, because I know people in the audience people listening, they’re like, like, they’re that here. And they’ve been where you are. So I know, this is really helpful to just hear like your whole journey.
Dorothy Hollabaugh 13:30
Yeah. So Upwork was really the the key to the castle for me. And it’s so funny to me now, because I think a lot of people have this perception. So for people who don’t know, Upwork is a freelancing platform where businesses post, you know, jobs, things that they need help with, and freelancers can submit proposals and apply for those jobs. And I think there’s this perception out there that, you know, these freelancing platforms like Upwork are really just filled with kind of these like crappy low paying clients. And that is absolutely not the case. I love up right. Yeah, I love Upwork to and, you know, I have, I mean, I would say, half of my current clients, you know, I originally met on Upwork. And these are clients that pay us, you know, 10 $15,000 a month and, you know, so, you know, really Upwork is where people go if they don’t have a referral. And so if you just understand how to use the platform effectively, and how to get yourself in front of those, you know, really great clients that are there and how to stand out for them. It is a phenomenal place to bring in business for any type of, you know, Freelancer online type of work.
Andrea Sager 14:40
I love that. And do you remember how much you were charging those first clients?
Dorothy Hollabaugh 14:45
Yeah, so I think I my first retainer was $2,500 a month, which felt like so much money tight.
Andrea Sager 14:55
Yeah, like that. I feel like that’s pretty high as a first client. That’s great.
Dorothy Hollabaugh 14:59
It was But it was really I mean, it was really the the power of having this coach, because if I was doing it on my own, there’s no way I would have felt comfortable charging that but because I have this person who was really just in the trenches with me holding my hand and helping me to get results for the people who were taking that chance on me, you know, that very first client that I ever signed, his name is Tyson, he’s literally still my client today, five years later. So, you know, I think you got to be able to back it up, right. So, you know, if I was charging that and not getting people results, that wouldn’t go very well, for very long, right. So, you know, I think it was, it was really the right decision for me to do what it took, you know, even though it was uncomfortable to get that support of that coach, who could really kind of hold my hand and make sure that that I was going to do things the right way, and, you know, build a really strong foundation.
Andrea Sager 15:55
And how long ago did you start your agency? Five years ago? 2017?
Andrea Sager 16:00
And what is your minimum package? Now, I just want the listeners to hear.
Dorothy Hollabaugh 16:05
So our minimum is $5,000 a month, but most of our clients are paying us, you know, I would say 10 to 12,000 a month. And then we have clients that pay us 25,000 A month and for higher ad spend.
Andrea Sager 16:19
That’s awesome. I love to hear that. I just love to see people’s journey and growth. Because when you’re in a place of like, I know, I’m meant to be doing something else hearing that journey. It’s like, Yes, I know, it’s possible for me to write another story that I want you to tell I just love that I know so much about you, because I can pull these stories out of you. Because I want people to hear how much of a badass you are and how you go after what you want. I want you to tell the story of how you got I don’t think I don’t know if it’s your last hire. But John, I remember you texting the group and the mastermind, because, well, you tell the story. Because yeah, for those listening, whether it’s somebody that you’re hiring in business, whether it’s just a decision that you’re trying to make if you have something that you want, like go and get it. And so there, I think there’s a fine line between, because obviously, I was just talking about surrendering. And I think there’s a fine line between surrendering but also do it taking that aligned action and you want 100% We’re just so on alignment, you’re like, This is the man I want for the job. And so please tell that story.
Dorothy Hollabaugh 17:25
I love it, you’re making it easy on me. So basically, what had happened was I had my right hand in the agency for a couple of years at that point who I had actually co founded another business with. So I’m also CEO of the gig, which is our business to help teach freelancers how to do what I did. And basically what happened was this person, you know who my co founder, Jim, he also worked in the agency. And he basically got this opportunity that would allow him to work way less and have way more time to focus on the gig. And so he kind of brought that to me and was like, hey, you know, I think I have to do this. And even though I knew that he was right. He was such a massive part of the agency. And I could not fathom how I could, I mean, how it could literally go on without him. And so that day when he broke this news to me, I mean, again, back to cry on the floor of my office, like, what am I going to do. And the only thing keeping me from, like, throwing up all over my desk was that I had this interview scheduled that afternoon with this guy who, you know, the notes for my recruiter about this person, I was like, alright, well, he’s way overqualified for the role that I was actually hiring for, which was a senior media buyer. And I was like, man, if he is even half of what he looks like he is I need him desperately, if Jim is leaving. So three o’clock, this is three o’clock on a Friday, we have this interview, I show up on Zoom. He doesn’t, he doesn’t show. I’m like, Oh my gosh, what is happening. So I go look in my inbox. I have an email from him from about an hour before saying, you know, hey, I’m so sorry to do this. But I have a few offers on the table. And I’m planning on taking one of them and I just don’t want to waste your time. Now keep in mind, you know, that made sense, because, you know, he was the job was kind of much, you know, lower position than really what he was qualified for. So I emailed him back, I said, John, I’m very motivated to bring on someone with your qualifications. Is there any chance that we can still have a conversation? He emails me back right away? He’s like, yes, of course. So we jump on the call. We ended up talking for two hours. We hit it off incredibly, you know, he is everything I thought he was and more and, you know, it basically came down to you know, alright, can I come up with a number that’s going to work for him because he had offers on the table, you know, for, you know, Director VP level positions at much bigger agency Then mind that could really offer him a salary that I knew I couldn’t come close to touching. So we get off the phone and we schedule a call for Sunday for me to basically give him my best offer, because he’s planning on literally accepting one of these offers on Monday morning. So so I get off the call, I’m like crunching the numbers and like, what is the most I can offer this guy, it is literally like half of these other offers that he has on the tables. I’m like, Alright, I’ve got to do something. I need him like, I need him to say yes. So all of a sudden, the idea just zoomed into my head, and I realized, I gotta get on a plane. So John lives in Washington, DC. So I literally, I go online, I book a 6:30am flight to DC for the next morning. And I send John an email, I’m like, This guy is either gonna love this, or he is going to think I am absolutely insane. And, like, blocked me and never talked to me again. So I email him. I’m like, John, I know, we’re asking each other for a lot of trust. You know, to that end, I just booked a flight. So we can have this conversation in person, let me know if that works for you. He emails me back in like five minutes. He’s like, wow, absolutely. Like, I’ll see you then. So he picks me up from the airport, the next morning, we go to breakfast, I pitched the heck out of him. And he said yes. And it was really, it was a result of that bold move, that got him to accept an offer that, you know, again, like I couldn’t even come close to touching what what he was being offered by these bigger agencies on salary. But I knew that loyalty was important to him that trust was important to him, and that he was looking for somewhere where he could really make an impact. And so my pitch was, you know, Hey, John, let’s, let’s build this company together. You know, I don’t just want an employee, I want a business partner, you know, let’s let’s do this thing. And that really resonated with him. Oh, my gosh,
Andrea Sager 21:53
again, goosebumps. I love that story. Because you were just like, I want this man. And he’s and tell that like listeners like he is Oh, definitely been worth it. Right?
Dorothy Hollabaugh 22:05
He doubled our business in 2022. Yeah, I love you. I
Andrea Sager 22:10
love your story, like and, like goosebumps. But I love that because you went after what you wanted. And for those listening that have been stuck, or are you are stuck in that because I know right? Now it’s a tough time in the market, a lot of either people are doing really, really well, or really, really bad. And a lot of those listening, you might be doing really, really bad. But if you just keep going and keep taking that aligned action, it is going to work out something is going to work, it may not be exactly what you’re doing next, right now. But taking that aligned action is going to get you to that next step. Now, one thing that I want to touch on is a little bit of legal stuff. Because I know your story, there’s one thing specifically that I want to touch on. Because this is something that comes up for so many people, there was a specific client that I helped you with. But I want to touch on that. Because not that we’re gonna have to talk about this specific client and name them. But how those red flags that come up early, they end up being huge red flags on the road, and you shouldn’t have worked with them to begin with. So can you kind of talk us through? So is it still is a year ago, I remember, it was December last year, you’re like, hey, I really need your help with this contract. They’re asking for all these changes, you know, talk us through that because you hired me to help with the contract. And I remember, I can’t remember if it was Phoenix or LA this past year, I was like, Hey, how does that client work out? And you’re like, awful. So please, let’s do that. Sorry. Because it’s the I hear it all the time. Like at first the client, you know, our, our clients come to me and they’re like, Hey, can you help me this client is asking for this change, and that change. And there’s red flags from the beginning. And they just
Dorothy Hollabaugh 23:55
end up being awful. Right? So this was actually an intro that was made by someone who I worked with at that startup before starting my agency. And she had landed at this, you know, Silicon Valley tech startup, basically, and, and they were looking for a new agency. And so she threw my name out there. And so I got the opportunity to pitch this client that, you know, I mean, they were just heavily funded, they were actually owned by, you know, a fortune 500 company. And so, you know, this was a really kind of big fish for me, right. And so, I have, you know, I have a contract that has worked very, very well for us for five years with all of our clients. And it is super simple. I mean, it was literally two pages. And so I presented them this contract, and they said, you know, hey, this isn’t really going to work for us, you know, let us send you our proposal. They sent back a 52 page contract. I mean, it was filled with everything that you could possibly imagine of all the different ways that they could totally screw To us, I mean, it was basically, I mean everything from, you know, hey, if we decide we don’t like the work, we don’t have to pay you to, you know, hey, if x, y, z, you know, whatever happens, we’re going to sue you, you know, just I mean, it was wild. And in my mind, I’m thinking, okay, you know, this is a, this is a big corporation that owns this, of course, they’re gonna put something like this in front of me. So, you know, we went back and forth for a while, I mean, I think it took two months to get this deal done. And finally, you know, we we came to an agreement, I held firm on some of the things that I was really uncomfortable with, you know, and I gave up on do some other things that, you know, I thought that I could handle and, and we started working together. And, you know, ultimately, the contract wasn’t an issue. The issue was that they were, I mean, they were just the most nightmare client that we have ever, you know, ever worked with, in any capacity. I mean, just, they treated our whole team, like, we were full time employees, and, you know, just the degree of attention that they need it. I mean, it was like, we were spending more time with this one client than we were on all of our other clients combined. And it was terrible. I mean, it was demoralizing for the team, you know, it was, it was really just not a great situation. And so, eventually, you know, we ended up pulling the plug on it, and, you know, worked with them for probably three months and said, you know, hey, this is this is really not working. And so it was definitely a learning experience for me, of, you know, just trusting my gut and not being blinded to the red flags that really should have been so obvious, you know, when we were going through that two month negotiation, that cost a lot of time cost a lot of money, you know,
Andrea Sager 26:45
and how much were they paying? Because they were paying, I think, 7000 a month? Was it?
Dorothy Hollabaugh 26:49
No way more, I mean, it was our, it was our biggest spending client at the time. So you know, they were, they were paying us quite a lot. But there was really no amount of money. Yeah, that sort of paid us it was worth, you know, the, the stress that they were putting on me and my team, I was
Andrea Sager 27:08
gonna say we’ve had similar clients in the past. But I don’t know if those on the podcast, so I don’t want to say too many details. But when those when those people come to you and want to work with you, and there’s immediate red flags, or just questioning things and questioning your practices and wanting you to change everything from the beginning, that’s just a huge red flag. And sometimes it’s so hard to say no, because, you know, there’s dollar signs right there. And but one thing that I’ve learned from Chris, Chris, harder for those listening is just because you can make that money doesn’t mean you should make that money. And whenever those red flags come up, just remember that just because I can make this money should I make this money?
Dorothy Hollabaugh 27:52
Well, and I think the lesson I’ve learned since is that there are other ways to make the money. I mean, I think of our clients now that, you know, pass these $20,000 month rotators, you know, that literally, I mean, we have our call with them twice a month, and they show up and they’re like, Hey, how are things going? And we’re like, great, they’re like, great. That’s it. And then we talk again, in two weeks. And it’s like, you know, just the, I actually had breakfast here in Chicago with one of those clients who, you know, was, was in town, and I was just thinking, like, Man, I love this guy. Like, we’re like, we’re friends as much as we’re clients. And I just have so much respect for him and so much love for him. And it’s like, you know, he pays us more than this, than this, you know, big corporate client did. And so, you know, I think it’s just opening your mind to the possibility that you can have everything that you want, and that there are ways to make the money that you want to make that are going to feel good. And you know, really feel aligned. That’s beautiful.
Andrea Sager 28:51
Well, before I let you go, there’s one question that I asked everybody. And that is, what is your number one business tip?
Dorothy Hollabaugh 28:59
Hmm. Gosh, I think it has to go back to the story I told about John is figure out a way to hire the best people you possibly can. Yeah, because I’ll be honest with you, Andrea, I actually kind of hated the agency for the first couple of years. And now I absolutely love it. I mean, it is something that, you know, I just I adore this business, and what made that change was bringing people in, who could do the things that I wasn’t good at or didn’t enjoy doing and do them 10 times better than I ever could. And, you know, I think I had this fear that you know, hey, well my clients want me and that’s true to some degree. But if you can find someone who can do it even better than you can do it. You know, they still get me but they also get these incredible people on my team who are creating these, you know, insane results for them. I mean, the impact John has had on our clients businesses this year is massive. The impact that Jim has had, you know, through his incredible talents as a copywriter, you know, it’s, it’s really phenomenal. So that would be my advice is, don’t just hire the people that you feel like you can afford. Hire people better than you and figure out a way to make it happen.
Andrea Sager 30:15
Yes, I love that. Okay, so if somebody’s like, oh my gosh, I need Dorothy in my life. I just want her to run my ads or her team, not necessarily her. How can they get in touch with you? How can they come and just be your BFF on social media? Because I think after this surprise and be like, how do I find Dorothy?
Dorothy Hollabaugh 30:33
I love it. Well, for someone who has an ad agency, I am pretty dark. Social media, but
Andrea Sager 30:40
so weird, because so many people that I know that own agencies are the exact same way.
Dorothy Hollabaugh 30:45
Yeah, well, it’s interesting, because I mean, paid social and organic social are very different things. Yeah. And so I don’t even really think of it as like connected in a way. But yeah, honestly, if I didn’t have the agency, I probably wouldn’t even have social media accounts. But but you know, and actually, you know, ads is really about data more than anything else. So, you know, I’m deep in the weeds and ads manager, but you can find me on LinkedIn, Dorothy Hollub. Ah, you can also find me on Instagram at Dorothy Hala, H O L L. A, and I would love to connect with you. So send me a message.
Andrea Sager 31:19
Amazing. Thank you so much, Dorothy. Thank you for having me. Here at Legalprenuer, we’re committed to providing a supportive legal community. For all business owners. I know how scary the legal stuff can be. If you found this information helpful. I would be so grateful if you could share it with a fellow business owner. And quite frankly, it doesn’t cost anything to rate review or subscribe to the show. Your support helps me reach more listeners, which allows me to support more business owners in their entrepreneurial journey. Have any questions or comments about the show? Feel free to drop me a line on Instagram. I promise I read all of the messages and comments. And if you want to be a guest on the show, or know someone that would make a great guest simply fill out our application form and a team member will reach out if we think it’s a good fit. I’ll see you in the next episode.