On today’s episode I am chatting with Jasmine Jonte. Jasmine is a course creator and online ghost writer. Her company JJ Coaching and Consulting works with experts, coaches and consultants that want to outsource their courses. Their number one goal is to create courses that are a true reflection of unique talent through a process that honors your uniqueness.
In this episode we will cover:
- Who struggles to create courses and why.
- Finding the next step in your career.
- The four step process to creating a program.
To contact Jasmine Jonte you can go to her website or find her on Instagram
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Episode 243: Creative Integrator with Jasmine Jonte Transcript
Andrea: [00:00:03] Welcome to the Legalpreneur podcast. I’m your host, Andrea Sager, founder and CEO of Legalpreneur Inc. As a serial entrepreneur and someone that works exclusively with small business owners legally protecting their business, I’m dedicated to covering common legal issues faced by business owners, providing you with the business knowledge you need to catapult your business’s growth and showing you just how some of the world’s most elite entrepreneurs have handled these legal and business issues themselves. In true attorney fashion, the information in this episode is not legal advice. This is for informational purposes only, and you should always consult with your attorney before implementing any of the information in the show. Hey there. Welcome back. To another episode. I am super excited about today’s guest, Jasmine Jayanti. She is the founder of a course creation agency and I’m super excited for you to learn from her because she has so much to share in making sure that you produce a really incredible course because as we all know, there’s a million course creators out there. It’s like a 101,000 new ones every single day, and it’s hard to stick out. So, Jasmine, I’m really excited to have you. Thanks for being here.
Jasmine: [00:01:18] Thanks for having me.
Andrea: [00:01:19] Well, to kick us off, can you just give us the spiel? Let us know your background. How did you get to where you are today?
Jasmine: [00:01:27] Sure. So I started my career teaching and I taught in the lowest performing school in the country, which at the time at the time it was in Detroit, Michigan, and I taught first grade. So making learning simple and fun was the only way to get my students results then, and is still true for all of the courses that we build, is to really create a learning experience that is engaging, delightful, fun, and also easy enough that someone can get the results without needing. Your time and attention and energy as the as the coach, consultant course creator, etc.. So that’s where I got my start. And then I eventually got to a place where I love my students and I love teaching, but I was just so burnt out, I couldn’t do it anymore. And I entered into this online education world first by building my own programs, right? So I was my own. I was my own subject matter expert, as we call them in instructional design, and got my students incredible results. Like, people would double their business in three months. People would increase their productivity like they get as much done in a week as they used to get done in a month. Like, just like crazy, crazy results across the board.
Jasmine: [00:02:47] But I couldn’t figure out how to make anything scale. I don’t know at what point you are in that spot where it’s like, okay, we got something started. This is amazing, but it’s time to go bigger. And I could not crack it. I could not figure out how to scale. And so eventually I shut down all of those programs that I was doing. I shut all of them down. I fired all my staff. I fired all my my clients. And I was just like, I don’t know what’s going to work, but this ain’t it. Wow. In that space that’s created, right? Because the law of the vacuum. So when you stop doing something, you create space for something new. I learned that this thing that I can do, which is creating really great programs that get people results, is actually a challenge for other people. I didn’t know it was a struggle. And once I learned that, I was like, Well, this is the part I loved the most. So every time I would like, stop building and start trying to scale, I get really frustrated because I didn’t love that part. So now I’m scaling a business that’s all about building programs, which is the part we love the best anyway.
Andrea: [00:03:54] I love that I. So that is a really, really unique and compelling background, having to teach, like one of the worst. Like the worst. I don’t want to say the worst students because. They couldn’t help themselves. But the worst performing school district. That’s insane. Wow. Oh, my. So, are you still in Detroit?
Jasmine: [00:04:21] No. Now I live in Phoenix. I did live for three years in Detroit and I. Man, it is such a beautiful city and the people are just kind and like, just amazing. I can’t do the snow anymore.
Andrea: [00:04:36] Yeah.
Jasmine: [00:04:37] But if it weren’t for that, I mean, I would still consider living there just because the people are so generous and just beautiful.
Andrea: [00:04:44] Yeah. And I’m curious what. So the first courses that you created that were doing really well, what were you teaching?
Jasmine: [00:04:53] I used my the first program I ever built was called IBS Warrior because I grew up with gut issues and then I killed them myself. And so, yeah, so I just taught from that perspective of I yield myself and I can help you heal, too. And I taught people exactly like me. And I never said I’m a doctor, I never said any of those kinds of things. But I was like from the perspective of like really understanding and knowing what you’re going through, I can do that, which a lot of the people in that space, that’s really what they needed more than anything else because right, for lots of reasons, you you get gaslighted when you have that kind of a condition.
Andrea: [00:05:34] Oh, for sure. I’ve had yeah, I’ve had my own gut health issues, so I know how it goes, but that’s really cool. So going into now, the course creation agency, I know your expertise is really creating an amazing course. Like I said in the beginning, there’s a million people out there creating courses that quite honestly suck at it. And do you know, like, do you know why a lot of people are not great at creating courses? Let’s, let’s hear it.
Jasmine: [00:06:11] That there’s a lot of reasons why. Right? But the first thing that comes to mind is as an expert and you might be able to relate to this, you know, so much, you have a PhD in what you know. So I think about it as like if there’s 100 files in your brain in that filing cabinet of a brain that you have when you’re talking to people one on one, when you’re consulting, you can pull out the file. You mean you can sit through there and sort through it because you know it all. So give people the result that they’re looking for. However, when you try and take that to a DIY or even done with you kind of situation where you need them to be able to get the result on their own, you have to take those hundred files, you have to take it down to the ten or 15 they actually need and be able to put them in the right order. And usually experts can’t do that because they’ve been involved in the work for so long, it’s hard. They can’t discern what is important and what is the syntax that needs to be applied so that a beginner, a kindergartner, can get a result.
Andrea: [00:07:16] So. Where was there something that happened when you realized, Wow, like, I’m actually really good at creating these courses and actually helping people create these courses. What was that moment like? What happened?
Jasmine: [00:07:30] I think it was in that gap of time between when I closed down my businesses and opened up this one, I called and this is such a great strategy. Anytime you’re stuck, it’s like I called up five of the people who knew me really well. And it wasn’t my family, but it was people who knew me in career. So my coach mentor at the time, my best friend. Some other people I knew from the personal development space and I was like, Just help me out. Let me let me talk about me for a little bit. And can you just hear back to me what you think I’m good at? Because I’m trying to figure out this next step and I don’t know what it is. And I was like, If you were going to ask me for help with something in your life right now, what would you want my help with? And the theme came up when one of my friends writer was like, Can you help me build out the curriculum for the course to go with my book? Another one of my friends, Ellen, was like, Can you please review the workbook I created for my group coaching program? Someone else was like, Hey, can you just look at my offer and help me figure out how to make it a juicier offer? And so through like the Golden thread was, they were all struggling with content curriculum. Yeah. And they all thought, I can help them with that because they’ve seen what I’ve done with other people.
Andrea: [00:08:51] Yes, that is so smart to call up five people. So if you’re listening and you’re stuck, you’re feeling stuck. You’re like, I feel like there’s something else I should be doing or I’m not exactly very passionate about what I’m currently doing. Call up those five people. Call him up and say, Hey, what? What do you think I could help you with? And I love that strategy. And because I know a lot of people are struggling, I feel like there’s a big shift happening in the business space, especially the online business space where a lot of people are. I think, number one, they’re struggling where they are. And I think it’s because they’re not doing what they’re meant to be doing. And this is a great way to get unstuck and to stop, hopefully stop chuckling. So let’s talk about the process that you take clients through.
Jasmine: [00:09:45] So we have a four step process. To creating a program. The first step is what I call a valuate, and it’s when we evaluate the offer, we evaluate any current assets, we evaluate the business model and how you want this current or new program to fit into all of those things. Because a lot of people, when they’re doing a course, they’re thinking, I want passive income. And while that’s valid and completely possible. It is not as easy as most of the marketers on the Internet are making it seem. They’re selling you the dream and they don’t. They’re not being as upfront about the hustle. It’s going to take to get there. And I don’t mean just creating the course, I mean scaling the thing. And so we get really intentional about like, okay, hold on, let’s take a beat and like, let’s make sure that all of this is aligned and evaluate the business, evaluate the offer, evaluate the assets that you have because you have a lot of assets, meaning you have a podcast, you have a book, you have a former course or different mini mini courses. It’s a lot easier to build from that place than to start from scratch. Where everything is in evidence. So step one, and then we move into architect phase, which is exactly what it sounds like. We look at the blueprint for the entire program. So what are the modules, what are the lessons, what are the action steps, What are the deliverables like? Are there bonuses? Are we doing a private podcast feed? Are we like, really? What is the vision for this thing? And then from that place we move into the build stage, which is third, and that is literally just like building the lessons. And sometimes that’s a script, I guess our videos, sometimes that’s a slide deck, sometimes that’s workbooks, sometimes it maybe goes, So why so far? But that’s really the the work. That’s what takes the most time. And then last is upload, which is exactly what it sounds like. It’s like, okay, let’s make this put this online and make a really great user experience using a portal of some sort.
Andrea: [00:11:58] So. When clients come to you, are there ever people that come to you and you’re like, Honestly, I just don’t think you’re a good fit to create a course. If so, who are those people? Who are those people?
Jasmine: [00:12:14] The first would be and this might not be anyone in your audience, but it’s the people who take a course and then they think, because I took that course, I can go teach that thing.
Andrea: [00:12:26] Yes. Oh, gosh.
Jasmine: [00:12:28] So like you like, for example, I took a copywriting course. And rather than going and doing the work and being a copywriter and getting reps, I’m going to go teach copywriting. And this gets into your territory around IP? Yes. So that’s the first kind of person. But to take that a step further, I would say you want to work with a certain number of people one on one with like ten, ten people being the absolute minimum. Yeah. Because if you don’t have the confidence in knowing what they need and what they want to be able to craft a learning experience that they don’t need you for yet. So you really have to get the reps in one on one or even some kind of group coaching that is not attached to a curriculum before you then go and systemize it.
Andrea: [00:13:21] I love that because a lot of people do come to me. Even so, a lot of people come to me for every type of business resource possible and they’re like, Hey, can you help me create a course? And I’m like, like, that’s not my specialty, but it is some of those people like you just said, they’re like, Oh, I just learned how to do this. I’m going to go teach people how to do it. And I’m like, Hmm. Just like you said, let’s get those reps in. So I’m glad that you brought that up. And who like what do you say to those people that come to you and they’re like, Oh, I want to create a course. I’m going to make $1,000,000 off of it. And not that they can’t make $1,000,000, but I think they need to have realistic expectations first. What do you say to those people?
Jasmine: [00:14:08] I try and remind them that. What this looks like now is not what it’s going to look like at scale, because you have to remember these these people that we see in our industry who are killing it.
Andrea: [00:14:22] Yeah. Like the Amy Porterfield of the world.
Jasmine: [00:14:26] First of all, they’ve known for a long time. And second of all, they have an offer. Sweet. They don’t just have one course. They have a suite and they are ascending them into levels. If we think about how to grow a business. Right, there’s three ways to grow a business. First is number of clients, so you get more clients in the door. Second is average transaction value, which means they’re spending more with you on that first purchase. And third is repurchases or referrals. And so if you look at who’s killing it, you know, the people who are like, oh, I’ve got an eight figure business. That’s not usually because they have one program. It’s because they have multiple. And on the front end, you have to spend if you want to do this at scale, the way that I see most people doing it is you’re spending either through affiliate marketing and you’re paying people a commission or you’re doing paid advertising. And that is what gets them in the front end. But you might only be if your course is 500 bucks, you might have to pay $300 to get someone to buy it for 500. So then you have 200, which is a little margin considering overhead and all the other expenses that go with the business. But where you make money is where they buy the upsell. So it’s kind of like setting those expectations. In terms of this is one part to the entire equation and it’s important you have to know what you’re getting into.
Andrea: [00:15:50] Yeah, Yeah. Because it is not. A super easy feat. I think I know at the beginning when I started my law firm, I was like, Oh, I’m going to create a course and I’m just going to make all this passive income from it. And I created it. I launched it and like I had sales, but it wasn’t like. Obviously crazy. I think I may have made like a few thousand dollars, but I’ve learned so much since then and. The main thing that I’ve learned is it’s not easy. Like I, I understand people are really good at marketing. People are really good at sales. And sometimes it’s frustrating to see people buy into, Oh, it’s so easy. I’m just going to make all this passive income from this course. And I’m like, It’s actually not that easy. I don’t want to steer you away from it, but I just want people to be realistic to know, hey, it’s actually not. All that easy. And when when people come to me and they’re like, Oh, I want to start an online business and make a course and make all this money, I’m like, okay, well, what what do you do? And some of these some people that I’ve talked to, they’re just like, oh, I’m a I had one person who I think was like a. A nurse during the day and she just wanted to start making a course. But I don’t even remember what she wanted to make. But she had no online presence. She had no. She wasn’t creating any content. And so I told her first I was like, Well, you should really figure out your niche first. What you want to talk about and start creating content around that in order to build an audience around that. And this is definitely not my expertise, so feel free to chime in. But when people come to me that really don’t have an online business, but they think they’re going to make all this money from courses, I’m like, Hey, like, let’s come back down to reality first and know like, this is what really most of the time happens first.
Jasmine: [00:17:54] And even service providers like lawyers, you know, like they think, oh, this is just an extension of the business they already have and they don’t realize it’s a completely different business. I mean, even if you are promoting yourself online. It’s probably a different avatar than you’re used to talking to. And it’s a different marketing mechanism. It’s a different sales mechanism. It’s a completely different business. And this happens a lot with service providers that come to us, you know, recruiters, YouTubes, agencies, even like dental practices who want to teach other dentists. It’s like like you think it’s an extension, but it’s really not. So it’s like always that warning.
Andrea: [00:18:43] Yeah. So let’s talk about that really quickly. So if somebody comes to you that is a service provider, let’s say, you know, dentist, doctor, lawyer, some kind of service professional, and they want to create a course. Like what do you tell them? Do you tell them to get started making creating an audience first? What what do you tell them?
Jasmine: [00:19:04] I mean, I can’t give blanket. It kind of depends on where they are and what they have to work with. So like, for example, we have one client right now who runs the Instagram account for a a huge schools plastic surgery division here in the States. And he is now teaching a program called Instagram for plastic surgeons. Now, if you look at his Instagram account, he is doing okay, but it’s not like he has a ton of people. However, he has crazy access to these people, just not online. Like he has inroads to get on webinars in front of thousands of plastic surgeons. So now on the outside, if someone else, a marketer come here. Yeah, go for social media. But it’s like, well, no, what what are the relationships that you have at your disposal? You might not have to do that. However, like the nurse that you mentioned, if she was creating a program for other nurses that might be more attainable for her, then like let’s say she wants to build a program for moms with toddlers, but she only has three friends who are moms with toddlers and has no social presence. Like, you’re going to have to take two different paths there. So it’s more about like, what do you want to create? And then how do you how are you already connected to that ideal client in some way?
Andrea: [00:20:37] Yeah, that makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. Okay, well, this has been wonderful. But before I let you go, we ask everybody the same question, and that is, what is your number one business tip? It doesn’t have to be related to course creation, but just your number one business tip.
Jasmine: [00:20:59] My number one business tip is. To not make your business, your identity.
Andrea: [00:21:06] Hmm. Yeah. That’s so good. Oh, yes. And that’s what we get so wrapped up in. We get lost, and it’s like, wait, we’re actually like, we’re still our own person.
Jasmine: [00:21:16] Yeah. Like, right now, we were talking before we aired, but we’re rebranding and we’ve been very tied to my personal brand. The company has been tied, and so we’re, we’re splitting those two things apart. And I was saying to my branding consultant just yesterday, I’m so excited to reclaim my personal brand and my name for my stuff. Yes. Because so often we we just attach our identity or business. And so if our business is successful, we feel successful. If our business is failing, we feel like we’re failing.
Andrea: [00:21:50] Yeah.
Jasmine: [00:21:52] And how many other iterations of that? Right. So I’ve really kind of taken time, especially this last year, to be like, I am not my business and how my business is doing does not dictate how I feel on a given day.
Andrea: [00:22:06] That is so true. Oh, I’m just having realizations of my own as you’re speaking. Jasmine, where can people find you if they want to create a course and they want to get some help? How can they find you?
Jasmine: [00:22:21] Yeah. So my Instagram is just my name at JasmineJonti and my website is also just my name, www.Jasminejonte.com If you’re listening in 2023 to this, that might be a little different. My company is going to be in a different place online, but that will remain my personal website. Perfect volunteer.
Andrea: [00:22:40] I love it. Jasmine, thank you so much for this.
Jasmine: [00:22:44] Thank you for having me.
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